Transcript
Genevieve Seney (00:00) hey, josh.
Genevieve Seney (00:11) Hey, Tim. Hey, Alex. How are you?
Alex Wang (00:16) Good. How are you?
Genevieve Seney (00:18) Good. I almost said happy Friday just because I’m off tomorrow. So that was selfish of me.
Alex Wang (00:23) Nice. Hopefully some more fun.
Genevieve Seney (00:27) Yeah, yes, I’m headed to Hawaii actually for the first time super excited. Oh.
Alex Wang (00:32) Wow. All right. That is fun. Yeah.
Genevieve Seney (00:35) Not looking forward to that flight from east coast to there, but, you know, that’s all part of the game. It’s not. I only found out that there’s direct recently, but I didn’t see any when I was booking. I don’t know why.
Alex Wang (00:49) Yeah, it’s probably better. It’s not direct otherwise, it’s probably like a 1,213 hour flight. Yeah.
Genevieve Seney (00:57) Oh, but yeah, either way.
Alex Wang (00:59) Yeah, I haven’t actually been, but I almost had to go last year for work. We were looking at a company surprisingly in Hawaii and it would be a two day turnaround between Boston and Hawaii and I was like, there’s no point not worth it at.
Genevieve Seney (01:13) All for sure.
Josh Brunell (01:14) You’re going to Maui, right? Jen?
Genevieve Seney (01:17) Yeah, actually, I have a friend that lives in oahu, so I’m going there for the weekend and then Maui, yeah.
Alex Wang (01:24) Nice. I’ll.
Josh Brunell (01:25) be doing, I’ll be doing oahu, and then Kauai, I’ve never been to either and in may so excited for that for sure. Wow.
Alex Wang (01:36) I feel like I should book a Hawaii trip now.
Josh Brunell (01:40) Yeah. My, I’m a little closer, than you two though. I’m just, I think a five hour flight away, so.
Alex Wang (01:46) Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. You’re in California, josh? Yeah. Okay. All right. For some reason, I thought you were like Chicago or central area?
Josh Brunell (01:58) No, yeah. I’m west coast and the other, josh levitan, he’s in Boston.
Alex Wang (02:05) Yeah. I do remember that. Yeah, yeah.
Josh Brunell (02:09) Do you think Jen, do you think, is gabby going to be joining or I.
Genevieve Seney (02:13) don’t I think she’s in transit. You can get started and I can fill her in if anything cool. Yeah.
Josh Brunell (02:18) And, and for context, Jen, Alex had reached out, just wanted to set up some time. I’m sure, just reconvening on the discussion from yesterday and making sure all sides are aligned. So, yeah, Alex, I’ll let you kind of take the floor here and share, you know, what you want to cover, and then we’ll get into it. Yeah.
Alex Wang (02:36) For sure. So I appreciate y’all just quickly jumping on the phone so quickly. I want to kind of get together and I saw like Peter shared the material and Jen, I think thanks for confirming my questions and I just want to get like a smaller group to talk through it quickly, kind of what the implication because like just candidly, I really liked the just how we like interact. You guys have been super like, you know… receptive and super responsive to everything here both throughout the sales process and the implementation process so far. But I think like this is like one of those things like it’s just like I mentioned yesterday. It’s super early in the implementation process and I feel like it’s like every time we’re just not kind of making a lot of progress here with kind of how we’re moving forward. I know like we obviously have the two options here. But I, and I just want to like I saw the analysis Peter put together. So where I was going with this yesterday was like jess, you may remember, like I was saying, I don’t understand how much quote unquote white space we have or buffer building to the contract based on the data now we have uploaded.
Alex Wang (03:54) And if we had, you know, 100,000 dollars, we eat into it like 2000 or 20,000. Obviously not a big deal. But like this actually shows we actually still need to pay. I just don’t I just feel like that’s not a good spot to land on candidly. Especially that means we are not going to have any buffers or any new providers coming on is going to need to kind of… basically an incremental cost from now on. And we are, I think josh, you definitely remember from the sales process, we are looking pretty aggressively looking at M a here. So this will definitely mean to onboard new clinics. And I can’t go into too much details but we are, we have a number of very kind of smaller acquisitions. We’re talking about one or two clinics and we’re trying to do like multi or like double digits of these this year. We’re also looking at a very sizable transaction here right now and tpd on closing time and, you know, if that will come close. But if that comes around, we’re talking about adding like ballpark, 50 60 percent providers immediately to our headcount. So I just feel like we’re tripping up on these small like honestly like we’re tripping up on five, six, 6,000 dollars when we’re kind of, you know, when the broader picture is we’re going to try to do? I guess like, you know, double digit acquisitions every year from now on, we’re making a lot of hires in that area. And then we’re trying to be very aggressive there. So it’s just like… I feel like that conversation is like, you know, when that comes like obviously we’ve got to pay more on this stuff. But like three weeks into the implementation, we’re tricking over like 15, 5,000 dollars, 15,000 dollars into it. So I just feel like it’s a distraction so far.
Genevieve Seney (05:52) Yeah. And maybe I can give just like a little bit of clarity to the intention is not for you guys to like pay us 5,000, 6,000 dollars or whatever it was. I think like that the slide that Peter put together was more of his visualization to give you what your usage looks like until you guys get started because you’ll be able to see and track this live in the platform. And to your point like if all goes well and you use 100 percent of your volumes for the year, I think I’m sure josh explained this like you can draw from your subsequent years. So like say tomorrow, not tomorrow, but say this year you use 100 percent of everything and obviously you didn’t account for this 6,000 dollars, like you could just pull that from year two and use that in this year’s contract. I think where we wanted to give you the heads up is if these numbers are drastically changing or all of a sudden, they’re not really what you’re anticipating then just so you know, like you’ll probably expect this consumption to go or get eaten up quicker. Does that make sense? It?
Alex Wang (06:54) Does that part I totally get and makes sense that’s the kind of the whole skew flex part. I think josh mentioned during the process, I think Jenny mentioned as well. But I guess my broader point is like we… were anticipating some buffer as we kind of onboard this now. Like the entire buffer is quote unquote going to be used up. And like end of the day, I understand, you know, between the two options but honestly, like I just wish this was something that was brought up during the process. And understand, obviously we couldn’t get into all that level of details but it’s just like now we’re talking about they were still paying for it. It’s just a deferred payment honestly in my head. So it’s just like… I guess I’m just kidding. I’m just looking for something like a better option here. I don’t think either option one or option two is good.
Josh Brunell (07:50) I mean, I’ll have to go over some of the numbers that the team sent and I don’t want to speak for the team on what they put together. But I do know that… one thing that we’ve done in the past for other customers is if they are going through acquisitions like this. Obviously, if you have a big change in scope of the contract that you can anticipate… I mean, Jen, I’ll lean on you just to kind of go through what that scenario has looked like in the past with other customers. But I’m sure if there needs to be a… I mean, correct me if I’m wrong if we’re at like the one year mark and it turns out that they’re over consuming. Is there a way for us to like essentially… do a contract like an early renewal if you will, so that they can commit to maybe an additional year. But in doing so, we reduce the overall like per unit price. Like I guess, like what have we done with like that in the past when we’ve ran into these situations where, hey, we thought we were growing. And then all of a sudden this huge credentialing event occurred. Like is there something that we can do from like a volume standpoint, like volume discount standpoint, if there is going to be a bigger commitment in the out years? Yeah.
Genevieve Seney (09:09) And I think like, I mean, obviously, Alex, you’re aware like we would have those conversations as we said yesterday, like we’ll track monthly your utilization. And so if you start to see or you tell us that there’s obviously an upcoming acquisition, we’re going to need triple these enrollment amounts. Like we’re going to go back to these contracts. And obviously our levers right our volumes and time as josh mentioned. So those unit prices will significantly come down based on how much additional volume you might need.
Genevieve Seney (09:38) And I guess like for the purpose just to draw us back like I just want to take your feedback of option one or option two, not maybe answering or being the right path forward, I guess like where I’m maybe want a little bit more feedback from you. Is, are these numbers that were originally discussed during the sales process?
Genevieve Seney (09:59) Are you saying these might be way under than what you’re thinking for year one or not aligned to what you no?
Alex Wang (10:06) Sorry. Yeah, I’m sure the numbers are right. I didn’t compare, you know, at the unit price, if that was. I’m sure. Y’all, just got that directly from josh. I’m sure the numbers are right. What I’m saying is if you flip to the prior page between option one and option two, option one is basically saying we’re going to pay for the additional six, I think, which is what’s happening here. What this page laid out. We ask you flex. And then option two is the discount, I guess like why can’t we like, obviously, I think I’m not going to try to be unreasonable saying we’re not going to pay any additional because I know like there’s a cost associated to it, but I guess it’s why if it’s option one, why. And this is, you know, out now, like we’re talking this like after the fact, why is that not like six at discount or like essentially like a merge between the two? I guess that’s the part. I don’t understand if we can’t give discounts. Why not just, I don’t know, show some good will and move beyond this quickly. It just seems like we’re haggling over like whatever the discount is, I think we’re talking about a couple 1,000 dollars and I just don’t get like the hesitation so far.
Genevieve Seney (11:17) Yeah. I think like for us, right? Like we, in our, the path forward, right? Like is to kind of just let you guys consume as is. I think like for us, the challenge is that we can’t have two different SKUs in a consumption, right? So we have to have everything in one product in order for you to draw and use your SKU flex. Like we can’t have multiple line items being consumed at different values especially as reports that doesn’t give you the option to kind of SKU those dollars to other contracts. So we don’t do like sort of like percentage discounts or different discounts in the contract because it’s tied to consumption. With that being said, Alex, like obviously, we, this is kind of like our path forward if this is not acceptable to you. And if this is not kind of where you’re headed. Obviously, I’m happy to take that back to gabby and our leadership and see what can be done. I think like this is just typically when we need to renegotiate or rediscuss what you need in the contract. We just want to make sure that again it’s all aligned and that’s why option two was kind of giving you that flexibility to have that more discounted rate if you wanted to go the route of signing on for the additional addendum.
Alex Wang (12:28) Yeah, but I guess that’s the point, right? Like if we sign an additional contract, that still means we have two effective unit prices in the same contract, right?
Genevieve Seney (12:37) Yeah. So I guess the difference there is like you wouldn’t it would all be under the lower unit cost. So everything all 10 would be consumed at the lower unit cost.
Alex Wang (12:50) I see. But we would have quote unquote. We would essentially reserve the wide place here.
Genevieve Seney (12:59) Right? Like this. So if you sign the addendum right? For the additional unit cost, it’s going to be less than 28 50 per roster. And then that also applies to all your future rosters. So any of the additional delegations, I think Kim said maybe two or so this year, all of that would be under that discounted unit rate.
Alex Wang (13:19) And how much are we talking about for?
Genevieve Seney (13:22) The, it’s 28 50 now, like obviously it’s going to be less. I think we were waiting to see if Kim could provide us with what the additional would be for this year, but we can, I can definitely get you a number for that option too. I just know we didn’t go down that path.
Alex Wang (13:36) Yeah. So… I’m just reacting live just so I think she can probably give you this number. I think we’re probably talking two or three payers but one of them is united so that could be pretty big a multi state. And then the other one potentially is blue cross blue shield. So obviously that’s we’re probably going to start with Arkansas. So that’s one honestly table space or like however you call it only.
Genevieve Seney (14:06) If you have to, sorry to interrupt, if you have the states you’re targeting for the payers, we can also look on our side to see what other clients are looking at, if they’re multi state or not. Obviously each contract’s different, but I’m happy to take a look.
Alex Wang (14:21) Yeah. So that’s my next, I don’t think we have the dates or anything because we, I think it’s honestly pretty far out from where we’re at today and we haven’t got the delegation kind of I don’t obviously the official term like we haven’t been kind of certified or however you call it to delegate with those payers. So I think realistically we’re looking at option… one and I just honestly don’t feel like that’s a… like a candid offer. It’s basically saying you got to pay for it and eat it. That’s the message I’m getting.
Genevieve Seney (15:03) Understood. Yeah, I think again, like for us, we just there has to be a way to track this obviously. And we want this to kind of be right sized at the beginning. And so again, I hear your feedback. I’m happy to take this back to our team and see kind of what next steps might be for you, Alex, in terms of what we can offer?
Alex Wang (15:25) Yeah. One idea. I like josh’s idea like earlier, like because honestly like the downside of doing this is this, I’m just telling you this is a budget conscious team. If you come out of the gate, tell the team, everything you do is going to have a upcharge to it. What they will do is for future, they may not enroll the new providers onto this. I think that’s an even bigger revenue loss. I’d assume. So like, yeah.
Josh Brunell (15:56) Yeah. Alex, we’re in alignment there like I completely, and I think Jen is too, like we know that you’re going to be a happy healthy long term customer that’s going to grow. So like your growth plan that you shared with us during the sales process, like you have M a ahead, you have organic growth ahead. Like I think in the spirit of partnership, me and Jen, we’ll take this feedback and we’ll go to our leadership and of course, like do what’s right to make sure that you feel comfortable with whatever option that we can. We can, we could get for you. So like I completely understand where you’re coming from on this and yeah, I think it’s like the sooner we can get this resolved and get the implementation like being the main focus and getting you live and seeing value like the better it is for all sides. And I think just like long term like from a partnership perspective, yeah, we hear what you’re saying and we’ll of course go to bat for you for this.
Alex Wang (16:52) Okay. Appreciate it. Yeah. Okay. So, I like, I think Jen, like we have a lot of trust in kind of from the process. One of the reasons from we went here like I’m sure josh shared, we actually went chose you guys over symplr, which we actually is a portfolio company of our own because of the engagement we got throughout this. So we really have a lot of trust here. And yeah, just hopefully we can resolve this pretty quickly. Like honestly, I think we’re talking a couple of 1,000. It’s just like a formality. It’s not about the money. I just don’t want like the management then have to say, okay, we put this in budget and then this becomes a line change in the budget report the board just saw a couple of weeks ago and then that is just not worth the conversation.
Genevieve Seney (17:38) Yeah, no, absolutely. And that wasn’t the intention by any means. I think we all want the same outcome and yeah, we’ll definitely come back to you for next steps shortly.
Alex Wang (17:47) Okay. Appreciate it.
Genevieve Seney (17:49) Thank you guys. Take care. Bye bye.